Paw Paw Dog » DTS

MSI 785GTM-E45 Motherboard for HTPC

lu — Mon, 22 Mar 2010 21:50:57 +0000

I was thinking building a HTPC for some time. My first choice for a HTPC motherboard the XFX GeForce 9300 did not work out when it went dead in just three days. Luckily, right after I returned it, there was a sale on a AMD Athlon II X3 440 CPU and MSI 785GTM-E45 motherboard combo for just $10 more than the XFX board by itself. I naturally jumped on the deal.

Packaging and the Board

While the MSI board was not packaged as fancy as the XFX board, it does come with a printed manual! Besides the printed manual, there is also a quick installation guide; driver CD; a SATA cable; a SATA power adapter cable and an IDE cable.

Compares to the XFX GeForce 9300 board I just returned, it only has 4 USB ports on the back panel and there is no eSATA port. It does however have HDMI; DVI and VGA video ports. More importantly, unlike the XFX board only has PS/2 keyboard port; this MSI board has both PS/2 keyboard and mouse ports.

On board, the MSI MB also has 6 SATA ports and unlike the XFX only has 4 of them active on default BIOS settings; all 6 SATA ports are active here. But equall bad as the XFX board, the SATA ports are also facing side rather than up. To make up for the short fall of USB ports compares to the XFX MB on the back panel, this MB has 4 two ports USB connectors on board compare to three on the XFX so the total max. Possible USB ports for both boards are 12 if one buys USB back or front panel brackets to bring the ports out. One thing not so great aboutthis board is it only has two memory slots but this is ok with me as I don’t plan to use more than 4GB of memory any way. What is more important to me is this board at least has one IDE port that XFX lacks. This is important for the old IDE based HD DVD drive .

Installation

After the board is installed, updating the driver is quite easy as MSI has an on-line update utility that will check for the latest drivers and BIOS. Updating the BIOS is easy. This factor alone makes the MSI board a far better choice than the XFX.

The BIOS is able to unlock unused core from certain AMD CPUs. Of course, being able to unlock a locked core does not mean it will functon correctly. I tried on my X3 and it hangs which means the 4th core is really a bad one to begin with.

The on board video, ATI 4200 turn out to be somewhat disappointing. I first tried the board with an AMD Athlon 64 5200+ I have. The Windows 7’s Aero scores in a low 3.8. In comparison, the GeForce 9300 of the XFX MB with an Intel Core Duo E4300 that in general performs around the same as the AMD CPU gets a 4.7 Aero score. When I put in the AMD Athlon II X3 440, the Aero score still a low 4.3. Even when over clock t he ATI 4200 from 400MHz to 700MHz, the Aero still not able to compete with the GF9300 with an Aero score of 4.5. It is certainly a disappointing performance to say the least. Especially when the AMD 785 chipset is a newer chipset and it’s ATI 4200 graphics processor is AMD’s top IGP. Over clocking, at least for the on board video is easier and more stable than the XFX board.

Regardless of the Aero performance, the ATI 4200 is capable to playback both HD DVD or Blu-Ray video without any problem. HD audio on the other hand turn out to be very different story. The MSI’s web site somewhat imply this board supports HD audio. What they neglect to make it clear is that HD audio only means the on board Realtek’s audio chip supports 8 ch. analog output. The HDMI port on the other hand only supports two ch. stereo LPCM sounds.

HDMI Setup

After first boot up, the Windows 7 will install the default HDMI driver automatically. Unfortunately, the default Microsoft HDMI driver only supports 2ch audio. Furthermore, the MSI driver CD split the HDMI driver from the chipset driver and requires separate installation. Even after install the ATI HDMI driver from the CD, I still only got 2 ch. Audio. Upon further on-line search, I was dismayed to found out that the AMD 785 chipset only capable to support 2 ch. LPCM output. An updated Realtek HDMI driver on the Realtek’s web site allows pass through of none HD audio stream such as regular 5.1 ch. DD and DTS sound tracks. After download and install the Realtek HDMI driver however, I still only got 2 ch. PCM output. Its only looking into the matter further, I found out there is an option on the Windows Sound manager that need to be selected to support pass through of none LPCM sound tracks. There is NO documentation that I can find on either MSI, AMD or Realtek ‘s web sites to state very clearly what is supported and how to make best use of the on board HDMI connection!

Summary and Conclusion

Pro:

The board is more stable than the XFX GeForce 9300 board before it.
MSI has a much better support web site and on-line update driver update mechanism.
There is a printed manual.
Able to unlock unused core of AMD CPUs.
Reasonably easy to over clock for the onboard ATI 4200.
HDMI, DVDI and VGA video output.
Total 12 USB and 6 SATA ports.

Con:

HDMI only supports 2 ch. LPCM audio. Even with updated Realtek HDMI driver, it can only support pass though of older 5.1 ch. DD or DTS sound tracks. No HD audio.
Only 2 memory slots.
Only 4 USB ports on the back panel. One needs breakout brackets to bring out the rest.
No SPDIF port on the back panel.
Performance of the ATI 4200 even over clocked is no match to GeForce 9300.

This MSI 785GTM-E45 is a reasonably priced board with decent features and performance. The big surprise and disappointment is the AMD 785 chipset only supports 2 ch. audio over HDMI. It really shows AMD really don’t care that much about design a chipset that can support modern HTPC applications. As far as I can tell, even their new flagship chipset 890, is still unable to support HD audio. Of course, AMD is not alone being guilty on this regard as Nvidia and Intel are no better.

For people who are happy with regular DD or DTS sound tracks, this is a good board for an all in one setup. If you want DTS HD MA or DD TrueHD however, you still require having an add-on graphics for that.

A not so great experience of the XFX GeForce 9300 Motherboard

lu — Sun, 21 Mar 2010 02:19:50 +0000

I have been using an old ECS motherboard with AGP bus with Intel E4300 Core Duo processor. It is an older board and therefore not only lacking HDMI connector, it does not even support HDTV resolutions and that make it rather difficult to connect to an even older 1080i RPTV. Furthermore, the board has no support for HD audio formats such as DTS HD MA or DD TrueHD. In fact, like most of the entry level boards, even it has SPDIF connectors inside the board, it is not on the back panel and does not came with a bracket to bring it out either making difficult to get even the none HD digital audio such as DTS or DD out. Since AGP is a dead bus format, it is clear I need at least a new MB if not a new MB and a new graphics card.

My first choice for the replacement is this XFX GeForce 9300 MI-9300-7AS9 motherboard. Unfortunately, as it turned out, this was a mistake for several reasons, but I am ahead of myself. The reason I choose this board is not only it has HDMI, DVI and VGA video output; it also has 6 USB and 1 ESATA connectors at the back panel. Although I have seen many reviews said the GeForce 9300 is not capable of output DTS HD MA or DD TrueHD bit stream, I feel I can live with it, as long as it can output 8 ch. LPCM.

The board is packaged in attractive double box.

While the board itself is very attractive looking, the included content is on the short side. It only contains a back panel bracket; a SATA power connector adapter cable; a SATA data cable; driver CD and quick installation guide. There was NO printed manual! This was the first motherboard I have ever encountered that does not come with a printed manual and it was a very unpleasant surprise.

Before I got the board I was already somewhat concern with XFX’s web site is on the slim side compares to other motherboard makers. To make matter worse, they have a very paranoid way of support that require customer to register first in order to gain access to driver down load etc. Again, XFX is first and only of PC board maker I have ever seen require customers to register in order to access the support section of the web. But that’s not all! Once I got to the support section of the web, I found out there are really no updated driver or BIOS beyond what was already on the CD or the board. This is 2010 and the latest BIOS is dated 2008! Furthermore, they did not include BIOS flash utility to update the BIOS and the CD update matter failed because they did not set up file name correctly. All these issue bode ill for XFX’s customers.

Regardless, the board itself looks attractive and much better than the old ECS board. Installation wasn’t a problem either. After I installed the board and powered it on, it worked despite the drivers and BIOS were old. I down loaded various components such as motherboard chipset and graphics drivers from the components makers such as Nvidia’s web site.

There were some things else I did not realize this board is lacking before I brought it. First, there is no older IDE support. While this may or may not be a problem for some people, it is to me as my HD DVD drive is an IDE drive. Since no one is making HD DVD drive anymore, if I want to keep playing HD DVD, I need to buy an IDE to SATA adapter. Not only it will be an additional cost, most of time seems are hit and miss at best with many users. The second issue is this board does not have a PS/2 mouse port. Again, this may or may not be a problem to some people but I have a two PC KVM switch that only works with PS/2 keyboard and mouse. It is a nuisance to have to keep two mice on the desk or have to get yet another adapter.

One other thing I don’t like is the SATA connectors are facing sides rather than up to save board space. While some people may like it, I don’t. Once the board is installed inside the case, it is impossible to see these connectors. Once has to use touch feeling to connect new drives. Although it says it has 6 SATA ports, only 4 are available under default BIOS settings.

The on board GeForce 9300 performed quite a bit better than the GeForce 7050 on board the old motherboard. The Window 7’s Aero scores jumped from 3 something to 4.7. Unfortunately, things went downhill from there.

After the installation, I let it running for the burn in process. On the fourth day morning I found the board went dead overnight. Just to be sure, I put the CPU and memory back to the old ECS MB and it boot up nicely. This means the new board is really dead and the choices are either return the board for replacement or return the board for refund. In view of the out dated drivers on XFX’s web site and not much else and the fact that this is the only MB died on me for the last 10-15 years, I did not want to waste for time on replacement and opt for refund.

Because I have not got the chance to try the HDMI port before it went dead on me, I was not able to it in HTPC settings. Even assume it did not failed, it is worth to take note that the GeForce 9300 is not capable to supprot DTS-HD MA or DD TrueHD pass through. The best it can do is to support 8 ch, LPCM and this means additional h/w or s/w is needed to decode these HD format. For the short time I have with the board, I can summarized the pro and con as follow,

Pro:

Attractive looking board. Good size heat sink on the chipset.
Have 6 USB and 1 ESATA port on back panel.
HDMI, DVI and VGA port.
CMOS reset button on the back panel. Good for people who want to try out on the edge BIOS settings.
On board GeForce 9300 is a decent performer and probably one of the better IGP.

Con:

The board went dead in less than four days.
No printed manual.
Out dated drivers and BIOS. No BIOS update utility and the CD update version does not work due to wrong file name used.
Require registration to gain access to a very slim that close to nothing web support pages.
Side facing SATA ports.
Only 4 SATA ports are available on default BIOS settings.
No SPDIF port on back panel.
I did not try it but looking at the BIOS setting options, it does not appear it is capable to do much over clocking if any.

Because of this not so good experience, I probably will not buy any XFX products any time soon. Luckily for me, there was a sale on AMD Athlon II X3 440 processor plus MSI MB bundle on sale for only $10 more than this XFX board. Although the on board ATI 4200′s video performance on the MSI board was not even close to this XFX board, I am much happy with that purchase.

$98 Magnavox NB530MGX Blu-Ray Player (4) – Usage Impression Follow Up

lu — Fri, 31 Jul 2009 22:30:32 +0000

When I first got the Magnavox NB530MGX I was using an older Pioneer receiver that lack of HDMI connection which means I was not able to decode the HD audio formats. I was using the coaxial digital output of the NB530 to the receiver. The result of course is as good or as bad as regular DD or DTS.

By coincident, right after I got the NB530, I stumbled upon a great deal on Yamaha RX-V665 receiver. As a receiver, the Yamaha RX-V665 has a rather mediocre power supply and even worse power amp section but if use as a pre-amp and processor, it is quite decent. Anyway, connecting the NB530MGX to the RX-V665 is straight forward; all is required is the HDMI cable.

The NB530MGX does not have HD audio decoder but it can pass the HD audio bitstream when HDMI HD audio output is selected. The Yamaha RX-V665 detects and decodes DTS HD Master or DD TrueHD or for that matter, PCM without any problem.

Speaking of decoding HD audio, many more expensive Blu-Ray players besides adding what I view as less than useless BD live function, they also added HD audio decoding. On the other hand, most if not all the sub $300 players even most of the sub $400 players do not have multi channel analog outputs. If a player does not have multi channel analog output then what is the use to decode the HD audio inside the player? The need to have the player to do in player decoding is for those older receiver is not capable to decode the HD audio, most of which does not even have HDMI input. Without analog output, the decoded HD audio bitstream is of no use for those older receiver, as those greedy studios would not allow HD audio stream be sent over the coaxial or optical digital I/O. While it is true there are some early HDMI days receiver has the HDMI input for PCM stream but does not have ability to decode HD audio, their number are far fewer than receivers either do not have the HDMI connections or the newer ones like the Yamha RX-V665 that is capable to decoding. The question then is why pay for something most people don’t need? Even for someone like me who did not own a HDMI HD audio capable receiver when I got the Blu-Ray player, I would not want to pay the extra to have built-in decoder. I would rather save the money to get a receiver that does. It does not have sense when you have more than one HD audio capable devices each has its own decoder when all is required is one set in the receiver.

I only have a small issue with the remote in the sense I think the FF/RR and chapter skip keys can be better arranged and somewhat bigger. As for the NB530MGX itself, I am quite happy about it. True, it is profile 1.1 and does not have Ethernet connection and that’s fine as I consider the BD Live even the Java stuff is more harm than good as they are the causes of most of the incompatibilities among Blu-Ray world. As mentioned, the unit does not decode HD audio, which is good as I don’t want to pay for something I don’t want or need. As long as it can send raw HD audio bitstream to the receiver, I am happy. The player is also a very good upscaler for regular DVD. In fact, some of the good DVD looks far better than those poorly made BD!

By looking inside the player, I would say there is more room to cut cost and yet made the player even more reliable and possible performed better. I would not be surprised to see the next generation of this player lower the price by another $10 or even $20. But if you don’t want to wait, $98 is a good deal.